Wyatt Pickner
Dakota Values in Public Health
Wyatt Pickner is Hunkpati Dakota, originally from Crow Creek South Dakota. Wyatt now lives in Minneapolis, MN where he serves as the Research Manager for the American Indian Cancer Foundation.
We chat about how Native wisdom strengthens our health and a bit about how the American Indian Cancer Foundation is “Healing with culture. Reclaiming Indigenous health.”
Article: Connecting traditional values, culture, and history to battle cancer in Indian Country
Leah Lemm:
Boozhoo. I'm Leah Lemm, citizen of the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe.
Daniel Lemm:
Hau Mitakuyapi. I'm Daniel Lemm, citizen of Lower Sioux Dakota Oyate.
Leah Lemm:
And this is Wisdom Continuum. We are bringing you conversations from awesome Native folks to celebrate Native wisdom for a healthier, thoughtful, more just future. How are you doing, Dan?
Daniel Lemm:
I'm doing all right. How are you doing?
Leah Lemm:
Oh my goodness, I'm good, I'm good. Thank you very much. See, it's so nice to connect with you in a different way, besides the rush of the morning, getting our kid out to school or over making dinner or something like that. This is definitely different.
Daniel Lemm:
Yeah. And it's nice to be communicating with you in separate rooms and not be yelling.
Leah Lemm:
What are you talking about? We don't yell.
Daniel Lemm:
Well, if we got to be able to hear each other, you might have to do a little yelling.
Leah Lemm:
That's true. Okay. So I'm really excited about today's conversation. I want to mention an article that I saw on Indian Country Today this past summer called Connecting Traditional Values Culture and History to Battle Cancer in Indian Country. So we have that article in the show notes, and when I saw it come across there, I starred it and I was like, this is so cool. There's a line in it where the author says that he realized that many of the traditional Dakota values he was raised with align with the foundation of public health and goes on to say that everything is related. And I just thought that was so perfect to maybe talk about further someday. And so the author, Wyatt Pickner, is our guest today.
Daniel Lemm:
Ooh, that sounds really cool. I look forward to talking to Wyatt here.
Leah Lemm:
So Wyatt Pickner is Hunkpati Dakota originally from Crow Creek, South Dakota, and Wyatt lives in Minneapolis. And he's the research manager for the American Indian Cancer Foundation. And he is dedicated to improving the wellbeing of Native communities across the United States, which he also talks about in the article too. And I think there's a really significant way that Wyatt got into the work as well. But he has 10 years of experience working with tribes and tribal organizations, Native-serving organizations, many different levels. So we're going to chat about how Native wisdom strengthens our health and a bit about how the American Indian Cancer Foundation is healing with culture and reclaiming indigenous health. So let's welcome Wyatt. Welcome, Wyatt. Boozhoo.
Daniel Lemm:
Welcome, Wyatt.
Wyatt Pickner:
Well, it's great to meet you both and be able to chat with you some about the work that you know I've been doing with AICAF and my perspective on some of this work and why I do this work. I am Hunkpati Dakota originally from Crow Creek, South Dakota. I was born and raised in South Dakota and worked there for a few years after I graduated from undergrad. And then really recognized and realized that if I wanted to have the impact that I wanted to for our Native communities and relatives that I needed to continue my education and expand and grow. And so then I applied and was accepted to the University of Washington to their community-oriented public health practice MPH program. And so I moved out there and went to school for about almost two years and got my MPH and worked with some of the Native communities out there for a few years.
Wyatt Pickner:
And then I actually did an Indigenous research internship in New Zealand for about two months or so, came back and started working with the Urban Indian Health Institute in Seattle. And then I did that for almost two years and then recognized that I needed to be closer to home and my family. And there was a position that opened up at AICAF and it just felt right. And so I applied and was offered the position. And so then I moved back to Minneapolis here, which is really fantastic because, as you know, this is traditional Dakota lands. And so it was really nice to be able to make that connection and also be close enough to my family in South Dakota that I could go and visit and be there for them when they needed it and also be here and serve the Native community here and AICAF, as a national org, we serve the communities across the country. So it's fantastic.
Daniel Lemm:
Thank you for sharing that. You're an example of somebody who grew up in their community and just said go out and expand, see what else is in the world. And then come back and bring that to the community. We had seen an article in Indian Country Today, and there's a few even quotes from that article that we want to talk with you about. And other things too. One of those from the article you said, I began pursuing what would become my life's work, improving health outcomes for Native communities. Would you like to share how you realized this is significant to you?
Wyatt Pickner:
Yeah, so I went to the University of South Dakota and when I first started my education there, I was really exploring what it was that I wanted to do. And I think a lot of my life experience growing up was influenced by a lot of my family and community members, especially my uncle. He's a physician and constantly was serving our community and everywhere we went, we would always, people would come up to him and they would say Dr. Sars, help us do this and do that. And I always looked up to him in the way that he would help others. And so I knew that at some point in some way, I was going to do something health-related. And so I started to explore that a little bit, but I was also interested in the history of our Native communities and what they were going through. And so I actually got two degrees, one in Native studies and one in health sciences. And a lot of times people would question about why or how I was going to connect those two, because they were completely separate fields.
Wyatt Pickner:
And it made complete sense to me because I was like, you have to know and understand the history of our communities if you want to help improve the health and wellbeing of those communities. And it's just so important because it comes up all the time, the history, our treaty rights, our sovereignty. All of those things are things that I think about every day in the work that I do. As I was going through undergrad, I was offered a summer research internship and started working more in the basic biomedical sciences. But I was also going through an experience with my family. One of my aunts that I talked about in the article as well, was going through breast cancer. And so it was really interesting because the project that I was working on was breast cancer in that internship. And so all of the pieces started coming together for me of this is what I want to do. And for the longest time, I was going down a clinical route and I started to experience research. So it went from the basic biomedical sciences, more into epidemiology and public health.
Wyatt Pickner:
And then really found that community-based community-oriented engaged research. And I was like, this is what I want to do. I want to help gather that information and data in a way that's appropriate and relevant for my community, because I feel like even the times that I had interacted with research and my perception of research was very cold and just it was hard to connect with it and it felt so sciencey and it just didn't feel right. And then I started to talk with people that it was like, no, there's a right way to do this. And that's what really piqued my interest and encouraged me to pursue doing it as a career, because it made sense to me, the history piece, the health piece, and really connecting that to my culture and my identity.
Leah Lemm:
You talked about the intersection of Native studies and the history of our communities and health sciences. So there are those overlaps and you wrote in the article too, that you realized that many of the traditional Dakota values you were raised with align with the foundation of public health. Do you mind expanding on that, what are those ways and how does the Dakota values help reinforce public health?
Wyatt Pickner:
Absolutely. Oh, I think about this all the time. Everything that I do, I constantly think about and bring myself back to the traditional and cultural values. The work that I do, I feel like it's not so much work. It's a way of life and it's who I am. And so it's not just my professional approach to work, but it's how I engage and interact with my family and my community. And that's where we have to start, because oftentimes I think in more Western research in community work and public health, it's more about frameworks and all these other things that again are so just cold or don't have that connection and the values beneath them. And so I think about things like respect, honor, perseverance, fortitude, that love and sacrifice that you have.
Wyatt Pickner:
It's not just a job for me. It's part of who I am. I think about the amount of time and effort that has gone into it. And sometimes when I think about with the hard times that I've experienced either in grad school or engaging with the community, and I have to remind myself about why it is that I'm doing the work that I am, because it's not for me. It's for my family and my community that have supported me for so long. There's so many others out there that have given so much. And there's that generosity. What does it mean to give so much to your community? Again, I think about my uncle and all the things that he gave and he never asked for anything in return. It was part of that bidirectional or reciprocal relationship that you have with your family and your community is that you take care of each other.
Wyatt Pickner:
You love each other. That means sticking around during hard times and having the courage and bravery to continue to do those things and address the hard topics. I think about those things when things get hard or tough or I encounter some of those issues. And also at the same time, another important value to remember is humility and being humble and recognizing where and who you come from and appreciating those individuals or that community and honoring and respecting them and giving thanks to them because without any of my family community, all of those people and all of the other people at AICAF that I work with, I wouldn't be able to do any of this work. I wouldn't have this knowledge and this approach to doing this work. And so I have to acknowledge and honor them in this way, because I can't do it by myself. It's part of a community that allows me to do this.
Leah Lemm:
Thanks for that. I really like hearing how values play out in the way of life in your career. And you mentioned your uncle and reciprocity in the community. Is there any other examples you'd like to highlight about where say Dakota values really shined as opposed to a solo colonial way of administering medicine in that cold way?
Wyatt Pickner:
I think something else that I was also remembering in thinking about how we approach this work, not even just research, but healthcare in caring for our relatives is that there has just been so much that has happened over the generations. And I think having that compassion and empathy for people is so critical to the work that we do, even for people that may not appear that they're going through a lot. There's so much behind each individual person. And I think about that again in the work that I do in collecting data and information. Oftentimes in research, we think about when you ask a question, it's a data point. And to me, I see every single data point or every question that we ask, every response has a story behind it, just like me and all the different interviews that I've done and people I've talked with.
Wyatt Pickner:
Whereas this is one little instance and there's a whole story of where I come from, who I come from and the things that have influenced my life and helped me to get me where I am. And so I also recognize that there is a lot of trauma that we've gone through. And so we have to have that compassion and empathy for each other, especially right now during this era of COVID that there's so much going on that we just need to be there and again, love and support each other through it all. And at the same time, also respecting and honoring and acknowledging all of the strength and resilience that we have so that we can lean on that and use that to move us forward because there is so much to celebrate and honor, and that's, I think, what excites me and helps to keep me pushing forward too.
Leah Lemm:
I'm going to ask one more question and then I'll let my spouse get in. This tends to happen, but I hear so much about the history and you also mentioned in the article, the overt and covert effects of colonization continue to impact our communities through systemic, institutional and structural racism. Yes. These are things we know and on our podcast here are things that we're like, yep, this is what's happened. And how can we celebrate Native wisdom no matter what background it is to reverse that out, even? So I hear you saying a lot of great stuff about just this different approach. Do you see any specifics from your line of work at AICAF or in your research where there might be specific ways to reverse out the harms that we've endured?
Wyatt Pickner:
Yeah. I think that it's a hard process. It takes a lot of time, energy and resources. And I think it's recognizing that it's not a quick fix. It's going to take a lot to reverse some of those things. And I think more so for people who are external to the community, because I think there's a lot to be said about the need to build relationships and understand what that purpose and intent of a project or healthcare or whatever it may be. It's going to take time. It's going to take the resources. And I think that part of doing that is asking more about what the needs and wants and priorities of the community are first. Going in and not expecting anything in return. There's been so many times that I've gone in to meet with a community. And sometimes we don't talk about work at all that first one or two meetings, because that's not what it's about.
Wyatt Pickner:
It's understanding who you are and your intentions as a person first and trying to understand where the community's at, so that you know where you can meet them, because that's what it's about is meeting the community where they're at and figuring out how you can help them and not how they can help you. And sometimes that's so hard to get people to understand, especially if you're not from a Native community, because we're not trained in that way. It's more about in the Western system education system, it's more about your own individual interests in developing a research question or figuring out what your life's work's going to be. And so when I think about research, I'm always like I don't have a specific research question or hypothesis because that's up to the community and I have to go to them and ask them and engage with them. And I have to tell them who I am first and make sure that they know and understand that so that they're willing to work with me and we can figure out how to approach this work in a way that makes sense to them.
Wyatt Pickner:
Because also while I have my own cultural knowledge and values and knowledge systems, they have their own. And sometimes those things don't always align. And so I need to approach that in a way that's appropriate as well. And so I think that's part of it. And again, a lot of times the educational systems we go through, they teach you systems that are like, these are the gold standards. This is how you do things. And to me, if you're going to go into a community, you need to flip that and be like, if I'm here to help, then I have to understand how they think about things. And I think that a lot of people, it's just so weird to them because they're like, no, we were taught this way. This is what we have to do, because this is the right way. That's part of that process as well is being able to take the time to do that and build those relationships versus being like, I have this funding deadline or this timeline that I have to work within because this is what I applied for.
Wyatt Pickner:
But if you don't include the community in that process, you're not going to know that it's going to take more time and you're setting expectations for the community that they might not be able to meet. And until you're able to do and accept all of those things, I think that it's going to be really hard to undo some of that within the community. And sometimes the community also, I think already knows and acknowledges that. And so they might not be willing to participate in a project or engage with that person, but I think that's what it's going to take to undo some of that harm and that mistrust and all of that trauma that has happened with the communities.
Leah Lemm:
Wyatt, you could be talking about anything too, any sort of project, any sector and not just health. So yeah, that makes so much sense and is very universal.
Daniel Lemm:
So Wyatt, I'm going to ask you a question, what is indigenous health to you? And then I'm going to... And you've been talking about that. You talked about Western medicine is cold. You've talked about data and I'll paraphrase here, data not only as a point, but also as part of a story. So quantitative and qualitative within the data. You've talked about so many things, including having a reciprocal relationship when conducting research. And so much more. Coming back to that question. What is indigenous health to you?
Wyatt Pickner:
It's interesting because when I started to engage with public health, that's what things started to click because again what was mentioned in the article, a lot of those values were starting to align. It wasn't a perfect alignment because again, I think that is more from what I was learning from Western knowledge systems. But a lot of times, I was actually just talking with some staff yesterday about this but when I think about other indigenous authors and people who have done this work and read some of the pieces of work that they do, oftentimes I have these thoughts or feelings or things inside me that I don't really quite have the words for. And then I read the things that they write and I'm like, this makes perfect sense to me. And so the more that I started to look into and learn about indigenous health and indigenous frameworks and knowledge systems and understanding that things started to make so much more sense to me.
Wyatt Pickner:
And so I think indigenous health is, oh my gosh, just like everything, it's all the thing. It's so hard to explain because I don't think it's just the way that we perceive health in the Western perspective. It is that emotional and physical is a component of it, but the mental and spiritual aspects as well. It's about who we are and how we're connected to each other. And it's not just us as an individual, but us as a family or a community. And I don't think that it's also just the here and now, but it's our past, our ancestors, as well as our future children, the grandchildren and future generations and how all of those things relate together and how we're honoring and respecting them and staying grounded in our cultural, traditional knowledge systems and using those to move through this life and figure out what our purpose is and how we support each other and make the best of our time here.
Leah Lemm:
The world view has just shifted and with values as a foundation, as opposed to money and individualism that so much is going to come out from these conversations. So I appreciate that. Okay. Wyatt, what's important for us to ask, what would you like us to ask you? Is there anything that we are missing or that you'd like to make sure to talk about?
Wyatt Pickner:
There probably is. I'm probably missing some things and I think I just want to go back maybe to that point about the qualitative and quantitative data and thinking about the stories that we all have and how that work comes out and trying to support that side of it and what data means and what information means to us as indigenous people. Because again, I think that the Western education and research world views data and information in a different way. And I feel like there are a lot of people that may not value qualitative information and storytelling as much as they do the quantitative numbers, because it's harder to measure and understand what that means and how it influences everything. And I think storytelling and that qualitative information has really helped me to understand so much else.
Wyatt Pickner:
And I often question the quantitative data because there's a lot of questions that can come out of that. And I'm like, how was this data collected, in what context by who, and is this accurate data and information? Because when we think about data that's collected at a national, regional, state, county level, the way that Native communities are, or indigenous communities are represented there, and how they're talked about may not be the most accurate because of the way that it's collected. And so it's like, what is a story behind that system and process as well? Not just the data that's there. That's a story all by itself as well, because the I think misclassification and issues around data are also influencing and perpetuating a lot of things for Native communities. And so I think that's a big thing that it's being talked about a little bit here and there but really trying to understand that story and narrative from a community perspective.
Wyatt Pickner:
And I feel like there's so many people that are talking about indigenous communities and their narratives, and they're not part of that community. And so that doesn't seem right. Again, a lot of the work that we do at AICAF is trying to figure out how we can lift up the communities that we serve so that they can tell their own story. And that's part of our mission is that we recognize that a lot of times the communities are just looking for the resources or the capacity, or some experts to help support and move that work forward and make the solutions a reality for that community. Because they have the knowledge, they have all the things that they need. They just need a little help getting there, but without someone else taking all the credit and benefiting themselves.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah, I really appreciate that. Even when it comes to AICAF's website, there's so many stories on it too, just individual stories about their experience with cancer and really making those data points, what would just be a data point more alive and more resonates with people in more than a spreadsheet and plot point and stuff like that. So, very cool. Yeah. I think AICAF does some really cool stuff there.
Wyatt Pickner:
And that's the thing is that while we are focused on cancer, I think a lot of this approach of reconnecting to those traditional values and knowledge systems, it's not just cancer. It's a lot of other health issues and things that are out there that we're helping to address, because there's so much, again, in our history that has led to cancer being such a significant issue in our communities. And so if we can go back to some of those traditional lifestyles, then can we address some of the burden of cancer? It probably won't be all of it at this point, but I think enough that will make a significant impact and help us keep our relatives longer.
Leah Lemm:
Right. So there are those risk factors that play into increased incidents of cancer. So just what comes to mind is keeping tobacco sacred or something like that that's instead of using cigarettes. Keeping tobacco like how it was intended to be used. So just as a simple example.
Wyatt Pickner:
Yeah, exactly. And that's we do a lot of work on tobacco and that's one of the big projects that we do within the research team that I oversee is tobacco work. And it's so stigmatized within Western culture. And it's so interesting even when I go out into public areas and it says a tobacco free zone, and I'm just like, is it though, is it really? Because for Native communities who will carry medicine with them, I have tobacco here with me. And so it's not technically tobacco. And I know there's been a lot of other efforts that have tried to promote that awareness and education of traditional tobacco in that its first and foremost, for a lot of Native communities, a medicine that we use on a regular basis.
Wyatt Pickner:
And how can we get people to understand that there's a whole history behind how tobacco was really taken from us as our Native communities and used in a way that was made more for profit and it was commercialized? And it's just so ironic to think about how we weren't able to practice our traditional cultural practices, they were illegal, but yet you could use commercial tobacco and a lot of people don't understand that's why the rates of commercial tobacco use are so high within our communities, but there's also not always that distinction between commercial and traditional tobacco use, because if people are using what they have access to, which is commercial tobacco, then of course people are, and if you don't say not for within ceremony or other things like that and make that distinction, then it's going to look like you're just smoking a cigarette or using an e-cigarette or something like that. So it's interesting.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Daniel, do you have anything else you'd like to ask?
Daniel Lemm:
I've got 1,000 questions, but maybe that's for a followup conversation. I don't have any at this time.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah. I think this is great and a really good way to begin and talk about health and how it applies to everything, because you even wrote in the article that everything is related and that's just very common and how can we... Why does Western or settler colonial society try to cordon everything off, put everything into its separate containers? Everything's connected in an ecosystem and this can be applied to everything. And it's hard to reverse that out because everything has a box or has tried, attempted to be put into a box. But yeah, I'm really curious actually, can I ask you about New Zealand real quick? Can you tell us a little bit about your New Zealand, what was it, an internship or a fellowship, internship and do you have any insights from that?
Wyatt Pickner:
Yeah, so it was such an amazing experience for a lot of different reasons. So it was an internship that I think approached talking about how to do research with indigenous communities in different parts of the world. And I think what was amazing is just seeing the overlap in connections that a lot of our indigenous communities have with each other. Similar experiences and the things that they went through, but also still honoring and recognizing the unique differences that we all have. But there's these underlying factors or protocols almost that were still there. As indigenous people, we have these, even though we may have never interacted. Those are still common pieces. And I think that just gave me so much hope and inspiration in working with some of the indigenous communities there in seeing how they approach health and healthcare.
Wyatt Pickner:
So the internship had a research component to it, but there was a lot of the time that we just got to go out and engage and interact with the communities there and learn from them and for them to get to know us too and share that time and space. And I don't think that's always given in a lot of internships. And so it helped me to just continue to think about how I live and work and engage with other people. And so I got to know some of their knowledge systems a little bit, or a little peek into it, and looking to see how even things like language are just incorporated. And it was a normal thing into everyday conversations, even with for the non-indigenous population there. They understood certain terminology about those communities and the significance that it meant.
Wyatt Pickner:
So it was great to be able to see that. And it encouraged me, I think, to think at a new level as well in engaging with healthcare systems. The work that I was doing, it was basically looking at the cultural responsiveness of biological samples. And so when you think about going into the clinic or a hospital and you give blood or a tissue sample and think about what is the healthcare system or clinic has a protocol that they're going to use to test that and do something with that. Has the community been informed about what that process looks like? As a lot of indigenous or Native communities have their own belief systems about the things that come from our body and what's done with those things. And so have they been consulted about what's going to happen with that?
Wyatt Pickner:
Is it going to be returned to them? And if so, how? So my project was basically to look into the protocols that the health systems there had and whether or not they had aspects of cultural responsiveness and safety in them. And basically it was that for the most part, they didn't. They didn't consult with them. They didn't ask the questions. They didn't go into the community to do some of that. And so that was some of that work to say this isn't happening and that it should. There should at least be a conversation and an opportunity for that sample to be returned to that individual or the family or the community. And also recognizing the ways in which some of those samples are kept and stored even after the intended use because sometimes that's how different things are developed or they're tested on. And it's like, but I didn't consent to that.
Wyatt Pickner:
But if the identifiable information has been removed, then it's technically the property of the health system and they can use it in the way that they want to. And so just from a indigenous or cultural standpoint, doesn't seem right. And then there are things that are done with that, that just don't quite sit right. And so being able to, again, go back. To this day there were, or while I was there, there were samples that were collected years ago that hadn't been returned to someone and used in a way that the community didn't feel was appropriate. And it was like, give those back to us. Those don't belong to you. And that's part of that process too. So it was really exciting to be able to learn from the communities there and expand how I thought about research and the things that we give to other people and whether or not that's appropriate to do so.
Wyatt Pickner:
And so it made me think about my own experiences of going into a hospital because I've never really given that extra thought about here's my blood and information. And then what happens to that, who has control over that? And as we think about our DNA and all of that genetic information, I think that there's a lot that's happening around that right now, genetics and your DNA. And as Native people, we're the only humans that are ranked by our blood quantum and that translates somehow to our Nativeness or indigenousness and our identities. And so it becomes a really complex conversation, but just gives me more of a push to consider who I give my information to.
Leah Lemm:
I haven't even thought about that. I just got my cholesterol check last week, and now I'm like, where did that go? Good thinking. Well, thank you so much, Wyatt. I really appreciate it, taking the time to chat with us this morning. Really wonderful to hear from you. And I've been looking forward to talking to you ever since I read the article. You didn't know it at the time, but that's it.
Wyatt Pickner:
Yeah. This has been really fantastic. Again, I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you both and just share a little bit about who I am, why I do the work that I do and what this looks like for me. What's I think most important is again, that we have to think about all of this is not about finding the problems and issues within our communities. It's about honoring and respecting the health and wellbeing of our communities and how we support and lift them up. So thank you for this time.
Daniel Lemm:
What a perfect way to end there, Wyatt. Wopida tanka for your time and your thoughts and sharing a little bit of your story here today. There's a lot of wisdom in what he said.
Leah Lemm:
There really is. I was keeping track, well, trying to keep track of all the nuggets of information and wisdom that popped out and I didn't give up, but we'll have to revisit that.
Daniel Lemm:
For sure.
Leah Lemm:
So I really loved what he was saying about focusing on the needs of the community and the community knows best and community has the knowledge. And I think that perfectly aligns with Wisdom Continuum.
Daniel Lemm:
I totally agree. And when I asked him the question about indigenous health, I thought it was interesting how he was trying to find the right words to talk about how he defines indigenous health. And it's interesting in that when you think about language and how we explain something and using a foreign language to define something that is so part of who we are.
Leah Lemm:
Foreign language being English.
Daniel Lemm:
Yes. Yes. Thank you for that clarification. There are reasons why it's hard to explain things sometimes. And when he talked about the data, not only as quantitative or the numbers, though, the story behind that. I think that's another one of those things when we try to talk about who we are and think through the whys behind what's happening and work toward those solutions, there's so much more to it than a number or a letter or words to what is happening. So the holistic approach to health that he talked about is a key part to explaining or describing what indigenous health is. So I was really happy to hear him talk about that as part of what is indigenous health.
Leah Lemm:
Miigwech, Wyatt Pickner, Hunkpati Dakota originally from Crow Creek, South Dakota, and he's now in Minneapolis and serves as the research manager for the American Indian Cancer Foundation. Thank you to Wisdom Continuum's consulting producer, Multitude, and Miigwech to Manda Lillie for the production help. We're also online at wisdomcontinuum.com and on social media, on Instagram and Twitter at Wisdom Continuum. I'm Leah.
Daniel Lemm:
I'm Daniel. This is Wisdom Continuum.
