Syngen Kanassatega
Anishinaabe Values Guiding Government
Join us as we chat with Syngen Kanassatega, citizen of the MIlle Lacs band of Ojibwe, lawyer, and drum keeper. His job is as the Legal and Policy Counsel for the Mille Lacs Band’s Office of the Chief Executive.
We explore an Anishinaabe cultural approach to law and tribal law. Is it possible to approach conversations with more civility? With more compassion? And we’ll hear more about how the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe has a little-known cultural component to its legal system.
Link to website with research mentioned by the Harvard Project on American Indian Economic Development.
Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe (link through to policies and statues).
TRANSCRIPT
Leah Lemm:
Boozhoo, I'm Leah Lemm. Citizen of the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe.
Daniel Lemm:
Hau Mitakuyapi, I'm Daniel Lemm. Citizen of Lower Sioux Dakota Oyate.
Leah Lemm:
And this is Wisdom Continuum. We are bringing you conversations from awesome Native folks to celebrate Native wisdom for a healthier, thoughtful, more just future. Well, here we are again, Dan.
Daniel Lemm:
Here we are, Leah. What's on your mind grapes today?
Leah Lemm:
On my mind grapes? Well, I'm thinking about how the world seems to slow down in the winter. I think that's what it's boiling down to here. I'm looking out the window, the river's moving slow. So the top looks completely still with ice, but underneath I know that it's still flowing. Yeah, I just love how molecules are always vibrating, but in colder temperatures they tend to slow down just like we do.
Daniel Lemm:
I love it. There's some science-y stuff in there.
Leah Lemm:
Science-y stuff, yes. That's a technical term.
Daniel Lemm:
It's also a good time of year to come together as a people, as a community, and tell some stories.
Leah Lemm:
That's right. Safely, mindfully, healthfully, of course. So with that said, let's get to the show. On Wisdom Continuum today, we have Syngen Kanassatega, fellow Mille Lacs Band member. Syngen is an advisor to the Mille Lacs Band's chief executive, Melanie Benjamin, and he has cultural roles with the tribe as well.
Daniel Lemm:
We chat about the Anishinaabe cultural approach to law and tribal law. Is it possible to approach conversations with more civility, with more compassion?
Leah Lemm:
And we'll hear more about how the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe has a little known cultural component to its legal system. So, here we go.
Daniel Lemm:
All right. Would you introduce yourself please?
Syngen Kanassatega:
Sure. My name is Syngen Kanassatega, I'm the legal and policy council for the Office of Chief Executive, Melanie Benjamin of the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe.
Leah Lemm:
And what does that role mean?
Syngen Kanassatega:
That role's a mix of lawyer and policy advisor. I advise the Chief Executive on the exercise of her executive powers under Band statutes, and also help her develop policies; help improve the Band's performance in some areas, if possible.
Leah Lemm:
Great. So, you have a few roles that you do and ways that you spend your time. Can you talk a bit about maybe more of your roles that you have in the community?
Syngen Kanassatega:
I also help Michael Davis take care of Binesi dewe'igan, Thunderbird drum, that we have in Mille Lacs. That's usually the first one to sound in the spring and fall. I've been helping him in that role now for maybe, this might be my third or fourth year now. It's interesting being a lawyer and also taking care of a ceremonial drum like that.
Leah Lemm:
Sure. But that is the exact perspective that we want to get. So, that's really great.
Daniel Lemm:
Syngen, being that you're an attorney working in a tribal government, what peaked your interest in law and government?
Syngen Kanassatega:
Well, actually it was working for the Band, I've actually only ever worked for the Band. When I graduated college back in 2008, I worked in Melanie's office, and then I moved over to the Band's Department of Education. And I guess I saw some, I guess some decision making within the Band's government that, that seemed arbitrary.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Band statutes were not taken seriously all the time. And so I just thought it was important to, I went to law school because I wanted to bring the principle of the rule of law to the Band. And I think that we've done that in some instances in my five years of practicing now for the Band. So I think that there's been some positive changes there.
Daniel Lemm:
Would you expand a little bit on examples of principles of the rule of law throughout the Band?
Syngen Kanassatega:
Sure. Yeah. So the rule of law, as I understand it, and as I've seen it on the United Nations websites, and the United States Courts websites, the rule of law is a principle that governments, that people and entities, and institutions will be held equally accountable to the laws, and that the laws will be applied equally.
Syngen Kanassatega:
When I first came, when I first came back to the Band in 2016, after I became a lawyer there were some instances where there wasn't a whole lot of familiarity with the Band statutes among those that were in positions of power. And I was asked to, "Hey, go look at the Band statutes." [Oh, I apologize. I got a little baby cousin running around here.]
Syngen Kanassatega:
And so I'd be asked to look at, look at these Band statutes and some of them, some statutes were many years, several years old. And some people didn't know that they even existed in the first place. And said, "Well, this is the law, and it's our law and it governs here." So then those in holding power would switch and say, "Oh, I guess so. That's the law. Let's go with it then."
Leah Lemm:
So I want to speak to cultural fit with the legal system, as you see it at Mille Lacs, and the traditional or historical method of governing. So there is pretty good research out there, which I don't think needs to be researched, but that a good cultural fit for tribal governments is necessary for said government to be seen as legitimate, and not an arbitrary government. Do you see it being a good cultural fit? How it's set up there?
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah. Well, our government in the way that we govern comes from the inspiration, as it's been explained to me when Art Gahbow was chairman, RBC chairman, and I believe Doug Sam was the secretary treasurer at the time. And they were exploring a new form of government, in which the five elected officials would divide their governmental powers, and allow the commissioners or directors, those that were directly underneath them to handle the day to day activities of the government. And allow the elected leadership to focus on big picture policy issues, rather than handling the day to day business of government.
Syngen Kanassatega:
And in this search, I've been told that that Art Gahbow and Doug Sam looked to our culture for inspiration for this government. And it turned out to be very similar to modern American separation of powers form of government. And there's a lot of Band members that think that our government is modeled after the American form of government. When it's not. It's actually, they look to the drums and the division of authority between members that belong to a drum and Midewin, and shake tent and other ceremonies.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Now responsibilities, all methods that were given to us to help our people. And so I guess that's where they drew inspiration from because, and it was funny that one elder I was talking to recently reiterated this same point. And it was when you're a leader, you are actually, more of a servant. You're more of a helper to the people. You're not above. You're below.
Leah Lemm:
Thank you. That's a really good distinction. So Dan, do you want to follow up?
Daniel Lemm:
Yeah. I'm processing here. Syngen you mentioned that Band members think their form of government is like the United States with its three branches of government, those three branches being legislative, executive, and judicial. So for me not being from Mille Lacs, those three branches, well, that's something that clicks for me because it's a model that I'm familiar with.
Daniel Lemm:
You talked about ceremonies and about authority, as well as people being in positions and not seeing themselves as better than, or above community members. And I just wanted to say that was really helpful for me to see how there is that model of those three branches without it being implemented the same way.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah. I would like to hear a bit more expansion on, I think what we call servant leadership, right? So how is that possible, let's say through value system? When we see politicians in larger dominant, well I don't know, dominant society. Whatever, larger society, they're taking the backhanded deals-
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah.
Leah Lemm:
And I don't know. I just think how the show House of Cards, I feel like that's real life. I don't know if you've ever seen that.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah. I like that show.
Leah Lemm:
But when I saw it I'm like, "This is definitely the way all of this works. I'm totally sure of it." But can you speak to a bit more of the cultural approach to tribal government, and that servant leadership, and maybe an example you've seen?
Syngen Kanassatega:
I suppose. Yeah. How it's supposed to work. You know, I was thinking about this recently. And I think it was, I think it was Benjamin Franklin, that there's that famous quote that's attributed to him about democracy and whether the American democracy, and the great experiment could last. And he said, "The American democracy will last as long as you can keep it." And I think that January 6th was an example of our democracy was threatened.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Those were individuals that threatened to interrupt a constitutional process, that never saw that before. And I realized that the Constitution is really, it's just words on paper, and it's up to the people that hold power to uphold the principles that are within the Constitution and what it stands for. It's really up to the people to hold it together. And so I think it's the same way with our form of government, with our form of government, having its roots and inspiration from our culture.
Syngen Kanassatega:
I think it would be very easy for tribal leader. I'm not naming anyone in particular, just hypothetical. I think it'd be easy for any tribal leader, any elected official to see the power that their position holds. The Mille Lacs Band is only little under 5,000 members, but it is a quasi sovereign nation that exercises criminal jurisdiction, civil jurisdiction.
Syngen Kanassatega:
It has meetings with the White House and it conducts external relations with the state of Minnesota, and the federal government. It wields a lot of power, this tiny quasi government of ours. When we look at our culture, and I think that the heart of what it is to be Anishinaabe is to have compassion for other people where we're very compassionate people. And we're compassionate to the point where we go out of our way to help people.
Syngen Kanassatega:
When you go to Midewin, you're always told, "Go help, go help, go help." If you're at the drum. if you're not even a, you don't belong to a drum, your parents or grandparents probably telling you, "Go help, go help them, go help ladies, go help them in the kitchen. Guys, go help them with the drum, go help warm it up." Always, even a long time ago. I remember if someone was setting a dish, "Go over there, go help."
Syngen Kanassatega:
And I think I even talked about this, talked about Steve Premo's mural in the government center of that mural, when I look at that mural, I see Anishinaabe helping Anishinaabe make that migration as they went to their different camps in the woods, and they're holding hands. They're helping the ladies, the pregnant ladies and their hauling canoes down the trail.
Syngen Kanassatega:
And so with that compassion in mind, I think that ought to be at the heart of leadership in our government. And if it isn't, if that isn't at the core, then I think that our form of government might, it might fail. That kind of our experiment. That's kind of our responsibility, just like Ben Franklin said, it's up to Americans to uphold the democracy.It's up to us to uphold those traditions and to bring that compassion to the position. Otherwise, it's just where our laws are just words on paper.
Leah Lemm:
Thank you.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Sorry, that was a long-winded answer, but something that I was pondering lately.
Leah Lemm:
You came right back to it though, you know? You started off with your thesis statement, and supported it, and ended with a great pull quote.
Syngen Kanassatega:
No, yeah. Yeah.
Daniel Lemm:
I think that ties to something you said in the beginning. As you stepped into the role as a lawyer, and policy advisor for the Band, as you were seeing rules, or laws that weren't necessarily being followed, I want to ask you about how you approached those conversations with elected officials?
Daniel Lemm:
What was going through your mind or through your body? How did you approach that conversation, which in part could be, how do we hold ourselves and each other accountable to ensure that this great experiment that we are going through continues?
Syngen Kanassatega:
That was a nerve wracking conversation. It still pops up every now and then. And I'm glad that we now have lawyers in our legislative branch of government, and in the OSGs office that really also believe in the written word of the law, and under speaker, the assembly Sheldon Boyd's leadership, they have really, they have more Band assembly lawyers than I can remember. Previous Band assemblies having.
Syngen Kanassatega:
They posted all our statutes online and all of our Band assembly meetings are now publicly streamed. So now there's a firm belief in holding government accountable, and leadership accountable. And back to that conversation. But early on, I think that I was lucky to have a boss, a client in Chief Executive Benjamin, who when she hired me, she said, "I haven't had a lawyer in this office in 10 years, and I need somebody here to keep everything in line."
Syngen Kanassatega:
"Keep everything in this government in line, and make sure that I'm doing things right. Make sure that everyone else is doing things right." So I think I was lucky to have a leader and elected official support me like that. And when sometimes we might be in Band assembly and might have to, a question of how to take a certain government action might arise. And there might be a couple proposals that are thrown out, that are contrary to the law that they weren't aware about, but I happened to be.
Syngen Kanassatega:
And then I'm very nervous and I, "Hey, can I chime in? I have something to share." And then I just tell them what the law is. But I think what gave me the confidence in that moment was thinking back to the drums. And the drums, everything that you do, Midewin, we don't take shortcuts with things at ceremonies. You don't leave out parts of a ceremony.
Syngen Kanassatega:
There's a way that you do things. And so I use that as an analogy to get my point across and to say, this is who we are as Anishinaabe. We don't take shortcuts at the drum. We don't take shortcuts in our other ceremonies, and our government is based on this. Everyone has a job to do. You're supposed to do it. You over there, you're supposed to do your job over there. And this is what the law is. Let's follow it. We don't take shortcuts. We don't disregard things.
Syngen Kanassatega:
And then, and then it clicks. I think that really brings it home for a lot of people. And saying that in a respectful way, not in a, "Hey, you're breaking the law" kind of way, but just in a helping kind of way.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah. That makes sense. Not in a accusatory-
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah.
Leah Lemm:
But in that compassionate way-
Syngen Kanassatega:
Right, right.
Leah Lemm:
Like you were saying before.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah. People can get kind of ticked off. If you come at them...
Leah Lemm:
We can all get ticked really. You know, if I don't cook dinner right or-
Syngen Kanassatega:
Oh boy.
Leah Lemm:
Whatever, right? I mean, there's all sorts of ways. So Syngen, let's solve the world's problems.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Oh boy.
Leah Lemm:
Do you think there are any takeaways from this practice of centering culture as being like you build a government from culture. You build your laws, systems from culture. Is there any way to apply that, now that we're this late in the game, a couple hundred, several hundred years later, after the United States was formed? What do you think?
Syngen Kanassatega:
Boy. You know I do, I firmly believe. I firmly believe that, we're all taught in our little, in our Mille Lacs Band, we're made up of different districts and those districts have different historical Bands residing within them that each signed treaties with the United States. Where the Mille Lacs Band is, it is actually, it's a Confederation. It consists of Sandy Lake Band, Kettle River Band, Snake River Band, all these historic Bands. And they each have their own ways of doing their own ceremonies. Like if you go to East Lake, they do funerals a little bit different.
Syngen Kanassatega:
But we respect those ways. We're taught to respect those differences. If we go to East Lake or wherever, you don't criticize how they do certain things that might be different than the way you did them. That respect is something that you don't really see in larger society. If somebody does something that's different from the way people do things, they criticize that a little bit. And that's not our way. That's not Anishinaabe way.
Syngen Kanassatega:
And so I think that our, I think that society at large, America, the United States, I think they have a lot to learn. We have a lot to offer them. I think about, I wasn't taught this. You read it in books. I don't remember my parents ever teaching me about this, but they talk about those seven fires, those seven prophecies in our culture, and how one of them was at some point when the chimookoman come, it can either, two things can happen.
Syngen Kanassatega:
We could either have a very difficult future with them, or we could have a very productive future with them and we could, they could learn from us, and we can learn from them. And together we can form a very powerful nation, at least that's what it says in those children's books and all that.
Syngen Kanassatega:
I tend, I have to believe in that second alternative there. And that's what I don't think that it's too late. I think that some people think we're past that prophecy, but I have to believe that we have something to offer that they're willing, that a lot of people are willing to listen and embrace. And I think that our peoples can learn from each other. And I think that we can benefit from each other quite a bit. That's really deep, but that's what I think about sometimes.
Leah Lemm:
I think that's a lot about what this is all about. Really.
Daniel Lemm:
Do you recall a time or instance when you were reading through your law textbooks? So looking at the US legal system and thinking, "Man, that's just not right." Or, that's not the way I would do things. Maybe that's not the way we would do things? You talked about respect, you talked about the seven fires. What is something else that you could think of that the US legal system could learn about from an Indigenous way of practicing law, or organizing ourselves so that we are all better off?
Syngen Kanassatega:
One area of law that I've always thought really conflicted with our ways was probate law. Was how everything is devised. A decedent has a will, and the possessions are distributed according to the will, or they're without a will. There's a hierarchy, the children, the siblings, but it's funny because in our culture, we're not taught to keep those things.
Syngen Kanassatega:
We're not taught to keep the possessions of those that pass on. That we're supposed to give those possessions away, to keep the family from fighting amongst each other. That's just something that's just fundamentally different between our cultures. I don't know if they'd ever embrace that, but I do think that an area that we're failing on when it comes to political discourse, that I think if we're being respectful to Anishinaabe, and we listen to each other, we treat each other with respect, and we keep that servant leadership perspective in mind, I think that we could improve the public discourse in this country today.
Syngen Kanassatega:
And I think that there's, I don't know if you've ever heard of the Lincoln project on Twitter. Yeah. And the Franklin Project. The Franklin Project promotes civility in public discourse. And it's something that's missing in American dialogue, and something that we can, I think that we're faltering at least at the Minnesota Chippewa tribe level.
Syngen Kanassatega:
We're in this mode similar to the larger society mode of, if somebody has a different opinion than you, I'm going to shout at you, I'm going to criticize you. I'm going to criticize who you are, and I'm going to intimidate you into submission, and just a very unproductive, very threatening, violent way of getting your point across.
Syngen Kanassatega:
And it seems that in our country, it seems that the power is within two political parties, and it's all about benefiting the party, it seems like. But if there's a way that we could bring that servant leadership perspective, I think we could contribute to an extent.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah. I like that. I'd imagine also property law, stuff like that might be a little different.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah. It is absolutely, yeah.
Leah Lemm:
But I don't know if that's going to go anywhere anytime soon, but after the revolution, that's what I just say.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah.
Daniel Lemm:
You talked about the Franklin project, and also about statutes for the Band being on the website. Are there any other resources, such as the US legal system, or about a Native legal system, or more specifically about the Mille Lacs legal system that come to mind, that listeners could turn to, if they wanted to read up more about this?
Syngen Kanassatega:
Title V, Title V of our Band statutes. I would encourage Band members and others to look at that. Just because there's an interesting component to the way our judicial branch is organized. We bring, Mille Lacs has a unique system in that there is, we do have a district court, and we do have a court of appeals, But we also have an elder panel that can be convened. And an elder panel can be convened to hear cultural causes of action.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Because in an American law, wherein our system has adopted this. In American law, you either have a criminal proceeding, or you have a civil proceeding. But we bring this third component to our court system. And that's a cultural component. I think that's a very interesting mechanism that I have not seen used. And I don't think has been used in several years. I believe it was used back in the 80s once.
Syngen Kanassatega:
I believe, a story was told to me that the housing authority was going to evict a Band member during one of the cold winter months, they hadn't paid their rent. And I think they filed a cultural cause of action in our court. And the argument isn't consistent with how we do things here. You don't kick a Shinaab out of their home into the cold, and during this time of year, and I'm sure enough that panel of elders and that court held. Yeah, you're right. We're going to hold off your eviction for now."
Leah Lemm:
Wow. I hadn't heard about that. That's pretty interesting, I think.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah, not a lot of people. Yeah. And you know what, I really do think that our form of government isn't, I was told that it wasn't supposed to be written down. Cultural stuff isn't supposed to be written down. To me, I've been told that's old school Shinaab way of thinking. And so how our government came to be and how it's modeled after the drums isn't in writing. But there is a clear need.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Just like how the chief justice of the US Supreme Court last year said there is a need for American Civics to be taught in class. Young Americans are not learning how this country is supposed to be run. And it's the same way with the Mille Lacs Band. Our Mille Lacs Band members don't even know how our government came to be, yet it needs to be taught. So, yeah. So we face a similar issue, I think.
Leah Lemm:
Wow, fascinating.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah.
Leah Lemm:
Great. It seems like there might be like a cultural disconnect between having your laws written down and then forgetting the act of being, maybe not fully remembering each and every word of law that is on the books, because it's just not, because it's not necessarily the word first, or the written word first, it's the values first. And does that, does what you're doing fit the values, or does it fit the word of law?
Syngen Kanassatega:
I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head. But I know that I have run into a couple of times where how I learned how to think like a lawyer, that kind of. Because thinking like a lawyer, that's not an Indigenous, it's not an Indigenous concept. I mean, law is in fairness and having laws that govern our people, that's universal.
Syngen Kanassatega:
But the way of thinking like a lawyer in today's, in the modern sense, that's a very, an Indigenous thing. And there have been times where it's clashed with the way that we're taught how to do things. And sometimes I haven't been able to successfully resolve those differences.
Syngen Kanassatega:
I've been called on it sometimes by others like, "Oh, you're thinking like a chimook." Those written laws are, those are non-Indigenous concepts. They have no business here. But I don't know. I guess I always go back to that seven fires thing, and think we have a lot to learn from each other.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Because Amik was the one that taught us how, everything's a Creator, everything is a creation of the Creator. That rock, you're not supposed to, kids aren't supposed to paint those rocks and decorate those rocks in elementary school. You're not supposed to make a Snowman.
Leah Lemm:
We know.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff like that.
Leah Lemm:
I got yelled at before.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah. Respect for creations of the Creator. And so I think about that when it comes to, this year particularly. I see, I noticed a lot of Native content creators on TikTok, on that TikTok app. Just talking all sorts of crap about non-Indigenous people and it comes from a place of anger, colonization, all that comes from a place of anger. But at the same time, I'm just like that's not Shinaab way of thinking.
Syngen Kanassatega:
That if we were put here by Creator Well, they were put here by Creator too. Then, they may not have treated us they might have treated us very poorly, but still we're taught to forgive that. Because you have to live within peace in yourself. Otherwise, you hold onto that anger. It comes out in very negative ways if you hold onto that. So I believe in that respect for non-Indigenous cultures.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah. I guess I'm thinking like, when something's written down and there's the intent behind what's written down. Versus, "Oh, you're missing a comma."
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah.
Leah Lemm:
And I catch myself doing this. Like, "That's not exactly what this sentence is saying, because you don't have a comma there. So actually this goes with that subject." So comparing it to what the actual intent and meaning behind the sentence as a whole is. What's the spirit behind it and not-
Syngen Kanassatega:
Words matter. Definitely.
Leah Lemm:
Anyway, that's pretty interesting. You know what, it's been a real pleasure getting to know you more.
Syngen Kanassatega:
Yeah. We'll do it again.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah, for sure. And now you know Daniel.
Daniel Lemm:
Yeah. It was really good to talk to you again, too, Syngen.
Leah Lemm:
Have a great day, giga-waabamin. All right. Syngen Kanassatega. What a great person to talk to. Syngen Kanassatega is a fellow Mille Lacs Band citizen. And is an advisor to the Mille Lacs Band Chief Executive, Melanie Benjamin, And hr has cultural roles with the tribe as well.
Daniel Lemm:
After this conversation. It has me thinking about how my values make their way into the work that I do, as well as how do I question the status quo? And this might be something that you're thinking about as well.
Leah Lemm:
Yeah. So do you notice anything in particular?
Daniel Lemm:
The part about accountability, and when we know something is written and how it should work a certain way, and yet the actual practice of it differs. How do we raise that concern, or bring that to somebody who might be our superior, or to our boss? I think that can be a delicate conversation.
Leah Lemm:
A little awkward.
Daniel Lemm:
And at this, for sure. And at the same time, the relationships that we have with our colleagues or whomever, I think having those conversations a little easier to have in some cases. Of course, depending on the significance of how a practice may diverge from how a procedure is written. It all depends on the circumstances. You can't talk about law without using the phrase it depends
Leah Lemm:
Classic. Yeah, that's great.
Daniel Lemm:
So that's something of course that I think about pretty regularly. For example, Syngen talked about what he knows, and what he reads in the Band's statutes. And bringing that to the attention of elected officials. That's a great example for how we can move towards growth, and move to the best versions of ourselves.
Leah Lemm:
That makes sense. A lot of it comes back to compassion towards one another, and towards yourself. So, yeah. I also mentioned some research at the beginning of the conversation that shows the importance of self-determined governments, and legitimate governments for tribes, instead of having a government imposed or prescribed to them. I'll have some of that research in the show notes, particularly from the Harvard Project on American Indian Economic Development.
Daniel Lemm:
We have been talking with so many great people, and we want to say that your input matters too. Do you know someone who's working on systemic change, or on centering Indigenous values? Or do you have a topic or interview suggestion? If so, email wisdomcontinuum AT gmail DOT com.
Leah Lemm:
You can also find Wisdom Continuum online at wisdomcontinuum.com, and on social media on Instagram and Twitter @WisdomContinuum. Thank you to Wisdom Continuum's consulting producer Multitude, and a big Miigwech to Manda Lillie for the production help. I'm Leah.
Daniel Lemm:
I'm Daniel, and this is Wisdom Continuum.
